I am going to have to agree with cr8ondt on this. The 20700 cells are hugely significant! At a recent tool show, Metabo was showing off their platform and they do preform well. He claimed that Bosch would be the next in line to use those cell and that the other brands were just starting to experiment with them. You have just proved that claim to be bogus - they are much closer to release. That battery looks slightly larger than a 5Ah. Look at the locking mechanism and hopefully it’s not just an illusion of the photo. I would be willing to bet that FlexVolt was designed with these new cells in mind for upgraded. Are they in the 9Ah FlexVolt? Too late for Christmas DeWalt. Please be here for Father’s day!
On a side note. That same rep claimed that Bosch sold Skill to raise capitol for an impending lawsuit or fine against Bosch automotive concerning the diesel emission scandal.
That’s the word from Dewalt’s press event. Stuart would know much better than I and could explain the details of how the different cells work but as I understand it the discharge rate of 18650 cells above 2.5ah are not very adequate for the high demand put on them by most tools where as 20700 cells have larger headroom to go beyond 3ah. I suspect Milwaukee’s 9ah (using 15 3ah 18650 cells) can overcomes this problem due to the vast stable of brushless tools that require somewhat less dischage of the battery. Dewalt on the other hand has mostly brushed motors out in the hands of their users and wouldn’t want to gamble on potentially exploding batteries.
With that in mind one could also speculate that with 20700 cells that the room for even greater capacity beyond 3ah, 4ah, even 5ah might be a possibility some day. Elon Musk is spending a metric BEEP ton of cash developing on the 20700 platform and Panasonic/Sanyo in partnership with him, have built a new factory focused on the cells too. It’s also a very real possibility that the increased production of 20700 cells will drive the cost down even lower than the 18650’s. Here’s hoping!
Yes, the 9Ah FlexVolt batteries definitely are using 20700. You can see the 9.0Ah batteries are larger to accommodate the 20700 cells.
@cr8ondt has got it right, at least up to his speculation, but it’s inline with what I heard.The speculation from the NPS16 attendees is that Milwaukee was late bringing out the 9.0Ah battery because the 3ah 16850s are right on the edge of viability and they were having heat issues, but Milwaukee never verified that.
I’ll also add that not only do the 20700 batteries have more capacity, They also have more volume to handle the heat. At Metabo they were telling us that the 20700 package only gave them about 20% more capacity, but they got 2x the runtime. That might be partially because of the tweaked LiHD chemistry, but don’t underestimate how much heat kills runtime.
Some other interesting battery info from Metabo. Cells are rated at 1A discharge rate. Start pulling 10,20,30A from the cells and they heat up lowering the overall Ahs. The middle cells heat up the most because they have nowhere to dump their heat.
In the case of a powertool, work is a function of time and power. If you can run a small tool longer or a more powerful tool shorter on the same battery (E would be measured in Ah). That bring up q which is heat lost in the power transfer reaction. If energy is being lost to heat, it is not being converted to work and the tool does not get as much run time.
That is a bit simplistic of an explanation but the more you can eliminate waste, the more you are being efficient. You can eliminate heat with these new cells (larger cells means less current flow per cell volume in addition to higher capacity), brushless motors or higher voltages (less current and heat to the resistance of electricity flow). The claim that Metabo makes about their LiHD batteries being xx% higher than standard Li is probably derived from the savings of heat loss this basic equation. They just [let marketing] quantify it.
Hi…i am a new user here. As per my knowledge The 20700 cells are hugely significant! At a recent tool show, Metabo was showing off their platform and they do preform well. He claimed that Bosch would be the next in line to use those cell and that the other brands were just starting to experiment with them. You have just proved that claim to be bogus - they are much closer to release. That battery looks slightly larger than a 5Ah.
He actually was partially correct, he just didn’t give you the full answer. Bosch is the next one who’s going to use Metabo’s special LiHD 20700 cells. Other companies like Dewalt are going to use 20700 cells, just not the ones developed by Metabo with Sanyo.
Metabo also licenses their battery technology to Mafell and they make the grinders and batteries for Walters in Canada.